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#1 2011-02-23 12:01:18

duffry
Founder
From: Stockport, UK
Registered: 2005-08-20
Website

BoE Epics - Read this post first!

BoE epics and how to get them
This forum is for the management of BoE epics that drop within our raids. Below is an explanation of the process that leads to the threads created here and what you should do with them.

BoE epics have typically been offered to the raiders in the group at the time that they drop. This offer has had the same terms as BoP boss drops, that is that you can Need for a main-spec upgrade or /roll for offspec. A problem with this process is that most BoE epics drop on the same nights as the farm bosses are killed. This leads to more drops on raids earlier in the week and less in the later raids. This means that those attending the raids that are typically easier (farm nights) have a greater return in terms of drops or DKP, while those attending the (typically) harder progress nights get less. While we need to accept this situation for boss BoPs we don't for the BoEs. As such a process has been designed to even out the distribution of epics dropped in raids to some degree.

The basic principle will be that when a BoE drops, rather than offering it for Needs and /rolls the guild will hold onto it. Then, when we either have a night with no boss kills or reach the end of the raid week some or all of them will be offered to that raid.

This forum is for our members to be able to keep track of what epics we have collected and to express an interest in getting hold of them. It will also let people know what the status is with them, if they have just been added, have been offered once and are earmarked to be gotten rid of soon or are being auctioned off.

I'll most likely be putting together a FAQ on the process and expectations of the system but for now here's a funky infographic about it. The green flow chart is pretty much what the officers will be doing to manage BoEs and the rest is info on how the system impacts you. If this isn't enough for you to understand all you want to about the system then please do post a question here and I'll do my best to answer it (and maybe add it to the FAQ).

http://img.duffry.com/BoE-epics3.jpg


http://img.duffry.com/duff2.jpg

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   Duffinci

 

#2 2011-02-23 19:50:56

duffry
Founder
From: Stockport, UK
Registered: 2005-08-20
Website

Re: BoE Epics - Read this post first!

Prepared this post a while ago so bumping for people to see more easily.


http://img.duffry.com/duff2.jpg

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   Duffinci

 

#3 2011-02-23 23:16:51

Deuskim
Forum member
From: London (Oz originally)
Registered: 2006-12-12

Re: BoE Epics - Read this post first!

/bump


"Keep your feet on the grrroooouuuuuunnnnndddd!"

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   Deuskim

 

#4 2011-03-06 12:19:05

duffry
Founder
From: Stockport, UK
Registered: 2005-08-20
Website

Re: BoE Epics - Read this post first!

A series of posts in another thread would be better served in this one:


XULU wrote:

That charts just confused me. Is it headed for the gbank or the AH if raiders dont need it?

duffry wrote:

The gBank is just a holding place, not a final destination. Does that help?

XULU wrote:

So we'd rather sell them on the AH than give non-raiders help gearing up? Isn't that a little bit poo?

duffry wrote:

We don't give them to anyone. We exchange them with raiders for DKP and with other people for gold. If you want them, then buy them on the AH. As a guildie you get a 50% refund.

XULU wrote:

Well some people raid infreqently/rarely like me, or gear up with a hope of being able to raid at a later date in 10 mans or whatever, yes. That goes for alts too I guess. Either way, the gbank is loaded, so it just seemed daft to be selling off stuff that people might like to purchase in guild first. not saying that I could afford it mind you, but still - look after your own and all that.

XULU wrote:

duffry wrote:

If you want them, then buy them on the AH. As a guildie you get a 50% refund.

Right, so why risk a guildy losing an item by being outbid on AH and just sell it to them first? Can't you use the average wowhead sell price or something and base a value off that? If someone outside the guild is willing to pay through the nose for said item, then that 50% might mean nothing if the guildy can't afford to stump up an inflated 100% price anyway?

Ok, few things to address here.
I'll start with the gBank being "loaded".
Yeah, there's a good wedge of cash in the gBank. I'm pretty sure that there are members with more but still, it's no good having cash sat there doing nothing. That said, you divide that money between our members, or even our raiders and it's actually not very much at all. We have previously discussed guild economics and how to meet a regular expense you need a regular income. Sale of epics has not been a regular income, is has been an irregular but good one.

Now the gBank has an income with the new guild features. It's regular but comparatively weak compared to sales of epics. However, with the combined incomes we have looked at what regular expenses we can afford. As such we have opened up daily repairs to members and raiders. We have been offering free enchants for raiders for a long time as this is predominantly funded by DEing raid drops with some gBank gold padding. We have looked at offering cauldrons but this is something we still can not afford to do all the time and offer it as a perk on progression raids.

Secondly, using standard prices.
This is what we did in Wrath and it proved to be a major problem in a number of ways. For a start, Wowhead often doesn't have a price. Secondly, when it does, it doesn't always reflect the price on Eonar (in both directions). And thirdly, it doesn't change (or change very quickly) so it can easily become out of date (say with tier changes). So it's a bad measure and we scrapped it.

Instead we have decided to go with a value that actually matches what the market is prepared to pay for it. Selling without a Buyout means that it sells for a bit less but pretty much always sells, so we don't have a load of items sat in the gBank depreciating and officers repeatedly having to re-list items that don't sell, or selling for way under market.

Thirdly, risk of being outbid.
This is a risk but I post on the forum just after listing and list for 48 hours. So you have a pretty accurate idea of when the item will expire, and so a better chance of gazzumping non-guildies. But yeah, it's a risk. Not a huge one though. Add that risk to the loss (a single offspec, alt or non-raider item not being upgraded yet) and frequency (not likely to be very common) and I see it as a low risk and loss loss and therefore not a big deal.

Lastly, not being able to afford to bid.
Bad luck. I sympathise but if that's the cost of the system then I say it is worth it. If you can't afford the price of the auction then you almost certainly wouldn't be able to get the item off the AH with a Buyout (as they normally are). I don't agree that people will be inflating the price by paying through the nose as that person will just pick up a Buyout and avoid the risk of losing the bid (and probably have the item by now anyway).

I see your arguments as generally being either correct but trivial or profound but incorrect. This is a fairly new system but it is delivering on the goals we set out for it. Those goals did not include making gBank money but were more centred around ensuring all raiders had a fair chance to get hold of items and increasing the desirability of late-week raids. There were so many shades of grey between "a raiding alt that is used" and "the alt of a social member that doesn't get played much (but has a load of gold)", that drawing an arbitrary line was all but impossible. This system is fair, efficient and focusses on the greatest needs of the guild. Yes, it will have it's edge cases and sticking points but one of them is not giving epics away to people for almost no return; like the old system did).

Please remember that BoE epics are not new, we've been at this a while and I know pretty well the proportion of them that anyone in the guild gives a flying toss about. "Not many", btw.


http://img.duffry.com/duff2.jpg

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   Duffinci

 

#5 2011-05-05 22:55:16

Boradin
Member
From: The wilds of Milton Keynes
Registered: 2008-05-17

Re: BoE Epics - Read this post first!

Bump for the new guys who aren't aware of our system at all, plus to let all current members know that after a period of slack the BoE forum is now fully up-to-date again, with old posts closed off and remaining items in GB now listed.

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   Jereth

 

#6 2011-05-21 20:45:38

Boradin
Member
From: The wilds of Milton Keynes
Registered: 2008-05-17

Re: BoE Epics - Read this post first!

Bumping for any new folks again. As always, if you're unsure you're of anything please feel free to talk to an officer.

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   Jereth

 

#7 2011-05-25 13:08:10

Boradin
Member
From: The wilds of Milton Keynes
Registered: 2008-05-17

Re: BoE Epics - Read this post first!

Bump for moah new folks.

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   Jereth

 

#8 2011-06-01 23:20:08

Boradin
Member
From: The wilds of Milton Keynes
Registered: 2008-05-17

Re: BoE Epics - Read this post first!

Moar bumpage.

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   Jereth

 

#9 2011-06-08 22:48:34

Boradin
Member
From: The wilds of Milton Keynes
Registered: 2008-05-17

Re: BoE Epics - Read this post first!

Process Change

With the reduction in value and overall lack of interest in BoE's on fake boss kills now, we will be changing the process of distribution of these until the next tier of raiding.

With immediate effect, we will no longer be doing the fake boss kills to wait on doing BoE distribution before the items hit the forums. As soon as they drop they will be posted here, if you show interest and are the viable candidate to get it, it will be handed out in the next raid as per normal.

As mentioned, this will continue until the next tier of raiding at which point the process will go back to normal.

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   Jereth

 

#10 2011-07-20 21:20:26

Boradin
Member
From: The wilds of Milton Keynes
Registered: 2008-05-17

Re: BoE Epics - Read this post first!

Bump for the new guys.

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   Jereth

 

#11 2011-08-02 23:05:38

Boradin
Member
From: The wilds of Milton Keynes
Registered: 2008-05-17

Re: BoE Epics - Read this post first!

Bump for any new folk.

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   Jereth

 

#12 2011-08-15 10:54:52

Arcane
Member
Registered: 2008-05-20

Re: BoE Epics - Read this post first!

Bump for people who've missed this.


~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~
# Athíest the LifeGrip Ninja #
~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~

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   Athíest

 

#13 2011-09-06 22:52:05

Boradin
Member
From: The wilds of Milton Keynes
Registered: 2008-05-17

Re: BoE Epics - Read this post first!

Bump for new folk.

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   Jereth

 

#14 2012-05-02 22:18:41

Boradin
Member
From: The wilds of Milton Keynes
Registered: 2008-05-17

Re: BoE Epics - Read this post first!

Bump for Alex.

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   Jereth

 

#15 2012-05-06 19:35:37

AlexL
Forum member
Registered: 2011-09-15

Re: BoE Epics - Read this post first!

Boradin wrote:

Bump for Alex.

Wow, finally I became special!

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   Alexlhp

 

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